Tenshi Vielle is accusing, on behalf of the ‘original’ creator at Renderosity, that a skin is being [allegedly] pirated through out Second Life all because it is sourced from the other 3D online store.
This is dangerous speak. It’s [it appears to be] defamatory, slanderous and possibly malicious. How is purchasing something somewhere and using it somewhere else, within the license afforded during purchase, “piracy”? So, until the original creator, and in turn Tenshi provide proof positive the original end user (purchaser) license has been violated (they have not that I have seen) – then they are both skirting legal action, should the accused choose to take that route.
I know the bloggers over at Shopping Cart Disco (specifically: Tenshi Vielle) are supposedly just reporting what they receive in terms of information and accusation, et al. However, was it appropriate to post such ‘news’ before getting the other side of the story?
[To clarify - this article is not about the accusation itself, but rather about the posting of a blog story that does not appear to be based on fact, but rather hearsay alone.]
The headline there:
This is a hugely false, flat-out malicious headline intended to gain readership and nothing more. In fact, it’s complete fantasy and borders on a lie. Tenshi: Please provide documentation on your accusation. And the first sad thing about this headline is that the story mentions absolutely nothing about the ‘dozens’. In fact it focuses on a single accusation from a single Renderosity merchant.
It’s no wonder the ‘fashionista’ world of Second Life is a dramatic nightmare. The drama seems to just feed on itself. But borderlines, in my mind, on the illegal and definitely the unethical. A lot of “smear campaigns” happen in that world, so I can’t help but to wonder.
Regarding this story, before it was posted: an attempt at least should have been made to contact the counter party (accused) to get their side of things. If such an attempt was made, it wasn’t mentioned at all and that would be poor ‘reporting’. Thereby, this makes the entire post, and the original plaintiff potential slanderers. (And anything ‘added’ in the feedback portion of a blog doesn’t count. Only the original story as posted.)
Too many bloggers are far too quick to “get the scoop” and sensationalize things way out of proportion. Too many do not exercise the responsibility they should. Now, the reason the blog post could be slanderous is because it’s presented as ‘news.’
Not over at Shopping Cart Disco – that blog is clearly an opinion and gossip blog and everyone has a right to opinion and gossip. What makes it slanderous is that the posting was replicated at the Second Life Herald. Already a controversial, alarmist tabloid, the SL Herald tries to pass itself off as a serious news blog about all things Second Life.
What makes this story a potential slanderous time bomb starts out with the headline and slug from the Herald:
Minnu Model Skins PhotoSourced from Renderosity???
Metaverse shocker — pirated skins being sold in SL!!!
by Tenshi Vielle, fabulous fashionista – courtesy of shoppingcartdisco
Red emphasis is mine and the very first statement that makes this a potential case of malice.
Now, I am not actually accusing Tenshi or the original Renderosity merchant of malice, defamation or slander. I am simply pointing out that this whole scenario certainly appears to be that way.
Okay, to quickly fill you in with out too much detail (you can read the original posting and comments – link below): A creator in Second Life known as “Minnu” is being ‘accused’ of purchasing skins from Renderosity.com. Repurposing those skins into use for Second Life and sold as their own creations.
I have been creating 3D art since the mid 1980’s and I am highly familiar with the industry, the software used and all the add-on tools and textures, etc. Renderosity is a depository where Poser and Bryce enthusiasts can obtain for free or purchase, models of figures, objects, clothing and textures for use as they choose. This use is usually within Poser or Bryce, two highly popular 3D art creation applications; Poser for humanoid figures and Bryce for landscapes.
So, here is why this story is potentially slanderous: when purchasing these items, including textures (skins are considered textures) the end user license usually states that the purchaser is free to use the items to create derivative works and must create derivative works and may not redistribute for any cost or freely the original works.
So, unless the specific license for the skins in question, purchased at Daz3d.com, Renderosity.com, Renderotica.com or any other location on the ‘net or anywhere else specifically states that it cannot be used in any other way, other than in Poser or Bryce or whatever restriction the original artist requires… then this story is malicious at worst, slanderous at best.
The question is: what does the original license say?
The big hoopla about all this is that a resident in SL “noticed” the similarity of Minnu’s skin to those available for sale at Renderosity. Notified the original creator who sells at Renderosity and that creator contacted Tenshi Vielle over at Shopping Cart Disco, and she wrote and posted the story (in both locations.)
Now, speaking of questionable: Tenshi then posted the same story, word-for-word to the SL Herald, where she is paid to write, and including a link back to her blog at Shopping Cart Disco. Can anyone say ‘double-dipping’?
But, I digress.
So there have been accusations about Minnu posting notices asking people not to steal content… prevent I.P. theft. Now because of this ’story’ people are proclaiming Minnu a hypocrite, when Minnu actually may not be.
And what of Tenshi? Is she a hypocrite for writing her story (in sensational, alarmist fashion, I might add) and posting it on her blog – then waiting a day and posting it to a “news” blog, getting paid for doing so, and in the process steering people away from the news blog back to her own?
I won’t go so far. You can decide that on your own.
I will say this…
Minnu: Speak-up.
Did you receive a cease and desist notice from the original creator at all?
Does your license allow you to create derivative works?
I say if the answers are “no” and “yes” respectively, then you have grounds for a slander, possibly malice legal action against the original creator for creating this situation and spreading rumor without contacting you, first. And again for the ‘news’ stories that are causing defamation. Yes, throw-in a defamation suit while you’re at it.
It’s not your fault the original creator didn’t think to enter Second Life and do what you did: take the work already created and plaster it all over SL and make additional money from it.
Now, after saying all of this, I want to make this part clear: I live in the United States. And here, you are legally innocent unless proven guilty. Thus, I give Minnu the benefit of the doubt. So, until the original artist produces the end user use license, it’s all hearsay and possibly malice. Burden of proof is on them. Unless Tenshi can produce the proof provided by the original artist, it’s defamation. If she does have that stuff and didn’t include that information in her original story, then it’s sloppy reporting.
Everyone is wondering when Minnu will respond. Has anyone even contacted Minnu to say “oh, by the way, you’re the subject of a really nasty, alarmist news story and being accused of pirating your skins, care to respond?” If Tenshi has, she hasn’t mentioned her attempt at all. Sloppy reporting at best, maliciousness at worst.
This is serious shit, folks.
Look, I’m not trying to make Tenshi out to be a bad person. Honestly. But let’s face it, everything on the public record points to some questionable motives on the part of the Renderosity merchant and questionable reporting methods of Shopping Cart Disco and, by extension, the SL Herald.
On the other hand, if Tenshi is able to produce all her research and documentation, then I hereby officially eat and swallow every word I’ve written about this and will be first in line, pitchfork and torch in hand demanding Minnu be drawn, quartered and burned alive at the stake (not in that order, of course.)
So, Tenshi… cough-up. Where’s the actual evidence this Renderosity vendor provided? Until you produce that, I’ll stand with Minnu and anyone else who stands accused of theft.
From Shopping Cart Disco and mirrored at Second Life Herald:
“One sharp-eyed Second Life community member did notice that a skin she purchased recently was stolen from Renderosity.com – and emailed the creator, which in turn caused the creator to email me to ask for help and find out how stolen things were handled in Second Life. I guided her towards a DCMA, but I would like to share her email and accompanying screenshots with all of you.”
Renderosity.com: Losing content to SL users dozens of times a day!
[Update, there is now a part two and a part three to this story that just doesn't want to die. In part two, I look at things logically, from as neutral a standpoint as I can. In part three, I am hoping ti kill it, once and for all.]
Filed under: Socially F*ked-Up | 51 Comments
Tags: Legal, Second Life
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I’m glad to see some balanced commentary on this. The similarities shown prove nothing, other than they probably found the same source material somewhere on the net. As a long-time member of Renderosity myself, I can tell you the content theft accusations among members there are just as vicious, and just as questionable as they are in SL.
Some things never change.
100% absolutely right. If the ‘original creator’ had any issues, he/she should have gone to the source itself. Instead, he/she went to the biggest drama stirrer/hypocrite in all of SL to post on her attackblog.
Then, on top of that, the attacker makes malicious titles calling Minnu a ‘thief’. Sorry, but unless you have access to her computer files, you can only make assumptions, which Tenshi is one of the best at doing so.
Fortunately, only the Tenshi clones buy the shit she’s selling. The unfortunate victims in this are the people who hear about Tenshi for the first time, and fail to do any actual research on her lies and libel.
The really funny thing about all this? The images are similar, but they aren’t near identical, and yet, anyone who points them out are ignored by the people carrying pitchforks and torches.
I honestly think it’s only a matter of time before someone who makes their living from SL gets annoyed enough of being accused of “piracy” and/or “stealing” by Tenshi that they have a lawyer look into what kind of $$$ they could make if she’s found to have libeled them on her blog. She’s skating on thin ice.
Minnu does in fact know about the posts Tenshi has written, and is following the advice of legal council to not comment at this time. Thank you for writing a post like this, bc as you said, whether or not the accused is or is not guilty, its very dangerous to make such statements as you pointed out. Also, I am still puzzled that why Danae (the accuser) *and lets say is being truthful about contacted her lawyers*, wasnt instructed to let her representation do the contacting for her- the whole going to a blogger- ANY blogger- to have this spewed out on a well viewed feed is quite mysterious to me |personally|. You would think if there really was a case to be made here, and not just a scheme to try and ruin a reputation, things would have been handled much differently.
The other part that troubles me, is that YES there is grounds for a libel/ harassment case. People don’t realize that this is not just one report about Minnu per Tenshi. This comes after multiple posts that range from theft to an attempt to poke fun at Minnu because her web host was acting up. Really, the range and repetition of these write ups make things very easy to see that yes, it is based on bad feelings. If Tenshi only wanted to report on a few occasions where she felt Minnu was in the wrong for something, and it really wasn’t a grudge, we would not see so many malicious attempts at tearing down Minnu’s name.
NOTE: The original “#1″ was some one who did not include a real email address. Hence, the post went into SPAM. You are always welcomed to use a false name, but please be adult and use a real email address. However, since they were too scared to put a real name or email address, it won’t matter that I am quoting them here:
———-
Couldn’t have said it better myself
youreanidiot@jerk.net | 98.206.43.205
“Bonehead” (as you call yourself) is right.
You are an IDIOT. Did you even read the comments???? Go back, read it again, and edit 90% of the shit you just wrote. Don’t make me waste my time reading your drivel again and cutting and pasting it for you. Either get an editor or take up another hobby, because “journalism” ain’t for you asshat.
Nice ploy to grab readers. Too bad your writing is shit. What a waste of time.
———-
And my reply to the “original” #1 (above):
@ #1 Name-calling is easy to do when you hide behind false titles. You’re welcome to call me any name in the book (as long as it’s “PG” rated) – but are you so scared to do so in the open you have to hind behind a false name (and fake email address)?
Okay, then to be fair, I’ll post your I.P. address so people at least can find out who you are, just in case they’re curious. I’m all for free speech. Just not for cowards who hide behind a wall throwing rocks.
Internet Protocol Address: 98.206.43.205
(Anyone interested can copy the IP address above and go here:
http://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm?GetLocation
Now, if you’d like to reply, it’s okay to use a false name. But do at least use a real email address. There are reasons for this. Primarily to confirm anything you say so that, unlike other bloggers, I can do actual research so I will be sure that what I report is fact.
So, if I Finger Tenshi’s I.P. address, hers won’t match-up with the one above, will it? ;)
Please, by all means, you *are* welcomed to disagree. I invite it.
As for going back and reading the comments – why? The issue here isn’t in the comments and feedback – the slander comes in the main post. So, if you speak of editing the original post, then why doesn’t Tenshi edit hers? Feedback snippets are just that: snippets after the fact. Anything said in feedback cannot and will not legally be considered part of the original story. So my going back to read them is moot.
———-
To Darien, Amen, Billie and Miabella: Thank you for your feedback.
My thank you isn’t for agreeing or rebutting my views, but rather thank you for voicing your opinions in an adult, mature manner.
As for this issue: I don’t want to accuse anyone of ’smearing’ another intentionally. The main thrust of my post is really that bloggers need to be more careful with what they write and how. There has been legal precedent made already regarding defamation via blog posts.
Tenshi’s post at Shopping Cart Disco is okay, because it’s a ‘gossip’ blog and makes no notion of being a news source. However, the same article at the SL Herald, which does claim to be a news source, is where the scary fine line of libel exists.
Tenshi: since you write for the Herald, it might be a good idea to pass it on to Pixeleen that he might want to supply all his writers appropriately with one of these right here.
I regularly see people in the fashion crowd in SL get suspicious over something and start raising hell before they’ve even bothered to contact the other party. Or once, I even saw someone spent eleven hours in a chat one day, badmouthing some merchant to any and all who would listen, when she hadn’t even given them 24 hours to answer her email first.
People need to understand that doing business like this is bad for EVERYONE, not just thieves, and they need to stop it. If I were a talented artist looking for people to buy my goods, I certainly would be hesitant to step a single foot into the drama laden markets of SL. I have a shop there now and am just so relieved I don’t sell clothes.
1. The email is real.
2. The IP isn’t.
3. The owner of the IP that you listed in this thread can report you to blogger for abuse of privacy and have your account suspended so you might want to modify that comment.
@ Just FYI
The IP is real. It’s the IP of the computer used to post the comment.
IP addresses are public and tracked all the time. The closest an IP address can come is to pinpoint a city… a zip code. Zip codes are public, too.
To get any closer, you would have to contact the Internet Service Provider. “Privacy” is why you must have a court order to get any closer.
Your point is well taken, but moot.
Please, try to use common sensibilities, here.
Let me get this straight a great deal of skin creators in sl purchase textures from these websites that is very common knowledge
They take the textures reform them for SL which is extremely difficult but they do it.
So they sell these reformed textures
No one from the websites who sell these textures are complaining because that is how they make money they sell textures of skins that is the purpose
Then some writer – so called writer makes a big alarmist
article slandering as if this is NEW news and something bad
to slam one skin creator individually
HUM……. things that make you go hum….
Um, I’m afraid that there is quite a bit of debate about the licensing, and strictly speaking, as a long-time member of Renderosity, here’s how it works:
CHARACTER packs (Such as Danae’s Manhattan pack which was used as Minnu’s source) include textures FOR the character, and the RENDERS of those characters may be sold, etc. HOWEVER, the “flat” or “plain” textures from character packs are not meant to be used commercially. A render of the character would be something like this: http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1064563
(hopefully that can be viewed). The textures may NOT be rendered to a “flat plane” and then used, they are to be rendered ON a figure (such as Victoria 4), and then that render may be used commercially (you can sell a PRINT for example, of something like I linked).
There are merchant resource packs, where the TEXTURES are indeed meant to be used commercially. Had Minnu opted to use a merchant resource pack, rather than a character pack, she would have been well within her rights.
The problem is, the textures of choice were not sold as a merchant’s resource pack. And there is a HUGE difference in how they are allowed to be used.
I am sick of seeing the argument that the license allows it, because having been a member of Renderosity for a LONG time, that is just not how it works. There’s a huge difference between R’osity merchant resources and R’osity character packs. :\
This was a well thought out article, thank you for showing some common sense to all the nonsense going on out there. Now a days I dont understand why no one gets the benefit of the doubt anymore. In the renderosity persons profile it said that some pieces were sourced from other peoples work. That in and of itself gives a chance that pieces could be similar and completely legal. Best to wait this one out and see what happens over time instead of name calling and accusations.
0,o
Wow. Man. I’m glad I came here and read like a sensible blog.
Thank you.
*leaves*
I am a long time personal user of Renderosity and a) i distrust sources who are sensationalist rather than fact based but b) i have READ the TOS and I don’t think Minnu, if has used the files, have broken any TOS. The rules stated that it could be used commercially if not extracted and used in original form. The actof fitting to the god awful SL template and then being degraded from the original 4000×4000 pxls to a measly 512×512 cannot in ANY manner be extracted back to the source properly. I *do* feel sorry for the content creator because they are VERY very very talented! And i think they have been contacted and taken for a ride. The use of service or TOS seems to have been written for a static world, hopefully this will cause content creators to realize their works can be used to be rendored in an interactive world so they can better clarify their TOS for modern day usage. Witchhunts suck. Deal with things in a mature manner – in a legal case – use legal means. Exploiting public opinion is the arena of a weak case – if you have a strong case, don’t devolve.
Just a technical point as I watch the very intersting debate go by (remaining neutral as my in-world wife is a skin maker). “Slander” refers to false, malicious speech which is found to be damaging. Writing that is false, malicious, and damaging is called “libel.” Both are forms of “defamation.”
All very good points! (And thank you, Uccello – this is correct, however, I thought my writing to be getting a bit long, so I simplified.)
Thank you, Shannon for a very insightful description. I haven’t personally used Renderosity in quite awhile and I see the merchants there have developed quite a bit. So, the question would be: is this the license included in the material Minnu purchase – at the time it was purchased. The next question comes down to actual use and the definition of how it was used. I’ll leave that one to the legal eagles. :)
My point in all this isn’t whether or not Minnu was legal in using the sourced material or not. But rather that a blog blatantly proclaims Minnu illegal and a pirate, thieving the sourced material – and sensationalizing the issue that A) it was “sourced” instead of created from scratch (big deal – that’s 95% of all SL content – including skins) and B) that it was pirated to boot.
That is damaging someone’s reputation as a person and a business strictly on hearsay (as we have yet to see the actual license that applies in this case.) And we don’t even have to see it. If the article in the Herald simply stated (truthfully) “we have seen the license and Minnu broke those terms…” – then it would be okay. But there is nothing close to any kind of validation.
I never was for character assassination. In my mind, without a shred of evidence provided for review or acknowledging there was evidence reviewed, it’s just wrong.
Well, I agree wholeheartedly that, the “jury is still out” so to speak, and in fairness, we aren’t really MEANT to be the jury. :) No one’s gone to trial just yet!
I didn’t mean to sound as if I was actually accusing, for what it’s worth, despite the fact that I neglected to use “accused” or “allegedly” etc. Sorry ’bout that!
I’ve never particularly thought of Tenshi as a real member of the press, or a “responsible” blogger – Tenshi is just your average blogger that blogs what she thinks, as she sees it, etc… but I think you’re right, there are perhaps times where we *all* should be careful how we’re phrasing things, etc. (And obviously that includes me, as seen from my own comment.)
Please accept my apologies on my lack of “if” and “possible” words! I wasn’t really intending to focus on who may or may not have “stolen” anything, but on the way that merchant resource packs vs. character packs work on Renderosity.
And I’m glad to know that NOT everyone has opted to act as judge, jury, and executioner. Nothing is proven to the public as a whole, and to be honest this should be, from this point forward, resolved between Minnu and Danae! That’s my two cents. :)
In the interest of doing the job properly, I have sent a contact request to the original artist at Renderosity who goes by the name “danae ” [sic].
Though it has been so long since I have personally been there, I don’t remember my old login information. Thus I am unsure if my message request has gone through.
So my request to any readers, if you know or have a means to contact Danae at Renderosity, I would greatly appreciate if you could pass along a head’s-up that I am trying to contact her with about eight interview questions.
I can be reached from the “About” page on this blog. An email address would be kept strictly confidential.
Thank you all.
@Shannon
I concur. I’ve met Tenshi a few times and I think she’s a wonderful person. She blogs with her heart! :)
I am by NO MEANS whatsoever accusing Tenshi of being a vicious, mean, smearmeister or anything like that. I am only trying to bring attention to the fact that it is so easy, that we are all so wound-up over I.P. Rights theft that it becomes ‘nature’ to quickly jump the gun at the first appearance of wrong-doing, when in fact, that may not be the case.
Unfortunately, Tenshi’s article is the perfect example to help me make my case, but I really wish to direct the message to everyone. Myself, included.
I for one am willing to give benefit of the doubt. If however, it turns out Minnu did break the terms of license, then I will wag my finger just as vigorously as everyone else. :)
Then I suggest you do yourself a service and do a little research on this wonderful person that is Tenshi. She’s wrongfully smeared many people. From attacking someone’s real life personal appearance (a whole article about it on SLH, mind you), to favoritism, i.e. attacking one designer for bringing real world items into SL, and then praising a friend for doing the exact same thing.
It is good to get balanced view
rather refreshing
I’m one of those who looks at the skin, looks at the Renderosity product, looks at the license and doesn’t see any infringement. Poor taste on the part of Minnu for claiming to have done all-original work, and if someone else decides to buy a Renderosiyt pack and make thriue own version she’sll not be able to do a DMCA because it is non-exclusively licensed material.
The skin is being rendered at far lower resolution than Bryce or Poser, none of the original materials can be extracted out with any degree of detail. (Renderosity files have 16,000,000 pixels and SL skin parts have 262,144 pixels, so you lose 15,737,856 pixels of detail that can’t be recovered).
BTW, that IP address comes from Comcast in Illinois … :)
1. My IP is not real for me, not the other commenter.
2. You are using wordpress and under wordpress’s ToS you agreed that the content you post “does not violate the privacy or publicity rights of any third party”. Posting a person’s ip address violates this part of the ToS and they do not need a court order to report you to WordPress.
“Automattic has the right (though not the obligation) to, in Automattic’s sole discretion (i) refuse or remove any content that, in Automattic’s reasonable opinion, violates any Automattic policy or is in any way harmful or objectionable, or (ii) terminate or deny access to and use of the Website to any individual or entity for any reason, in Automattic’s sole discretion.”
So basically the person with that IP you listed in the above comments just has to report you to Auotmattic, the owners of WordPress, and you risk the loss of your account.
A few salient points:
1) If Minnu decides not to speak on this subject, nothing is cleared up, nothing changes.
2) Libel? Think again. There must be proof that the intent is to libel the person’s name. In this case, I see the Shopping Cart Disco site as reporting and presenting what was known at the time.
3) It has already been established that the files were NOT purchased on Renderosity. This means that the files were somehow obtained by other means, torrent, shared, found, whatever. So, in essence it is theft.
4) In the famous words of Shakespeare, “Don’t shoot the messenger” or Sophocles, “No one loves the messenger who brings bad news”.
5) Realize that no matter how many times this issue is bandied around, discussed, flamed or shouted about, it is finally down to Danae Kotsi and Minnu Palen. All the rest is speculation.
Excuse me but i think ur post isn’t objective, it’s just the opposite side of Tenshi post, there isnt any common sense here, but I don’t blame u neither tenshi, this is how world runs, the magazines does all the time, they have their interests and turns in their favor changing words etc.
And like in real life saying that has been caught 2 minor drug dealers don’t sell any magazine, saying has been caught the “big” drug dealear that provides all the drugs in the country sells magazines. Blame it but its how world runs.
Besides this with all the drama about minnu and tenshi is hidding the real matter, and this is that Danae acussed Minnu, so an objective writer would post only this, the real facts and not entering in personal issues with 2 persons.
Tenshi post is like saying Minnu is guilty, urs like saying Minnu is innocent cos Tenshi is a lier, in the middle is the real issue and there isnt any person innocent neither guilty since the issue is clarified. The reality is that 2 persons has an issue and i suppose they will resolve between them, while all other is just speculation and every readear can make their opinion seeing the 2 sides.
Sunshine,
Re: 2), saying that Minnu Palen has stolen from Danae Kotsi is not “reporting”. Saying that it’s alleged by Danae Kotsi that Minnu Palen has stolen from her would be “reporting”, but Shopping Cart Disco
Re: 3), has this been established? It’s been claimed that Minnu Palen has alleged certain things regarding the provenance of her source material for the skin. Neither the veracity of the report concerning what Minnu might have claimed, much less the veracity of Minnu’s claims (if they were indeed made), are established as far as I know. The former just needs confirmation from Minnu, the latter is another of those things that a court would likely look into if it gets to that stage.
the germ’s been put in the ear. TV’s an evil monotonous genius. let’s not forget her masters at the Herald (interesting names showing up here in the comments, haha) have set this attack account upon the rest of us to serve their hate. don’t give her more credit than what she is due. Herald’s Useful Idiot. slanderous accusations, unproven allegations, gang bullying, anonymous threats; it’s a wild world we must be made to fear. is this where the good get going?
thank you for your perspective ari. the “silent majority” who would like nothing better than to return to peace appreciates it. it’s sad we don’t always stand up and say so more vociferously. we like to devote our time to Play! do we all need scandal to rub in our faces in the headlong rush towards a worldview based on ruin and degradation of body, mind, and soul?
damn wordpress. html reference left out of the “Herald’s Useful Idiot” link: http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2006/12/axel_springerbi.html
the authorities musta been warned!
If you believe the real question here is whether Minnu violated the license agreement using Danae’s product, please see this forum thread at Renderosity that pretty clearly spells out this is a Huge No – No according to Renderosity’s TOS:
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?thread_id=2735767
@ Nerfertiti – this is true, if the source was acquired from Renderosity. i do not know if the Renderosity material in question is previously sourced or created from scratch. No for me to decide. :)
@ FYI – True. However, the information I posted is public information and was presented falsely to begin with. Hence, I see it as fitting within WordPress and Automattic;s TOS. However, if they request a take-down, I will gladly comply.
@ Sunshine – I am currently in communication – off the record – with one of the parties involved. It is my hope my offer to communicate will be accepted by the other party – on or off the record. I will be shortly posting an intermediate article that will highlight this fact. Though your comments and perspective are appreciated.
@ Desidelia – Thank you for your perspective. It’s instructive. I am trying very hard to remain neutral in all of this and though it may appear I am taking the opposite side of Tenshi’s article, what I am really trying to do is take the ‘neutral – benefit of doubt’ side, as it should have been to begin with.
The point is there are accusations being made without any information of fact to back it up. That is my main message. if the facts surface that Minnu did in fact obtain the materials illegally – then I concur she is in the wrong. But there is no proof thus far this has happened. And according to the EULA of the materials – use in Second Life is allowed.
Please see my intermediate post – going up in a few minutes.
@ EnCore – thank you for seeing my effort as I intended it. :) For me, this isn’t about anything between Danae and Minnu – it’s about the article written by Tenshi – and even that is really just an example of my overriding message: Bloggers – you are far more influential that you realize – be careful what you say or it could turn around and bite you in the hind side. Not to mention the real life damage it can do to someone who doesn’t deserve it – at least not without merrit and a little proof of fact.
@ QueenKellee – A very good question, and it’s the question at the heart of the matter. But, it doesn’t matter what any EULA says now. What matters is the statement of the EULA at the time the original materials were acquired – and whether they were in fact acquired from that source. As for Renderosity’s TOD – it’s moot. Once a sale has been made, the EULA is between the copyright holder and the purchaser and Renderosity has no say with regard to the use of anything outside their purview (read: if it doesn’t happen on or with regard to their properties: their web site – they have no legal say – unless they own the copyright to the material itself.)
QueenKellee, Renderosity’s TOS is overridden by the license agreement provided in the skin pack, which, to my knowledge, Minnu did not violate. Even if the TOS were the one in effect, legally, I do think she is in the clear.
Some facts that people keep getting wrong/sneering at:
1) Minnu did use her own photos for her first-generation skin, which, ironically, no-one seems to remember (I recall being invited to the launch). She never claimed the latter generations did, though (again ironically), some of the pics of her body parts did make it to the later Gen skins. Still, every other commenter on that post (mistakenly) thinks she claimed this about her current skins, and seems to keep bringing it up in poor taste. The way they relish doing it is sickening.
2) Though everyone will discount this as biased, being one of GW’s employees, I can testify to the fact that Minnu did indeed mention computer trouble about two months ago and having to change pcs (I remember it because of some account problems I had at the time and I was on an alt), long before any of this happened – and she was agitated because a good number of her psds had been on the hard drive. I hate drama, but I also hate it when people make claims on someone’s statements without a shred of evidence to back them up.
Copyright law protects original works.
So what sort of copyright applies when the work is that of Dr. Frankenstein? I.e.; uses lips bought on render, uses makeup bought on render, uses various images for “parts/bits” bought on render, all of which carry the same sort of “copyright” as Dr. Frankenstein now claims on his clearly derivative “patchwork skin”?
Shouldn’t be throwing rocks at sinners when you are yourself a sinner. Nor should you begin publishing attacks that may be libel (written lie intended to cause monetary damages) unless your lawyer certified you are OK and your lawyer will cover all costs and damages stemming from civil litigation. (Is there such a lawyer on the planet that would take the rap for someone else?)
Based on the default copyright for renderosity, that website would be out of business since you can’t use anything purchased there for anything. This is why the artist readme overrides the default copyright and every single one of them i found when i looked months ago (to evaluate the place as a resource) clearly stated you could use the product for commercial purposes as long as you did not resell the product as in in a merchant resource type package. There was one exception from a highly touted and apparently respected “artist” of renderosity that seems to specialize in making sexually suggestive child “art”. This singular artists stated in unambiguous terms that you can display the work on your screen and take screenshots to send to the original artist and nothing more. I guess its some sort of 3D pron or something.
If people buying the stuff on renderosity have no right to use the stuff then why is renderosity and other graphic artist resources even in business? One might argue that renderosity is some sort of an organized bait and switch type criminal scam operation if this is the case. Sure you can give them your money but when they take it they do not really make any sort of attempt to warn you that you are spending money on something you are only allowed to display on your screen. Well the product pictures for these “products” are free so why be paying for it if thats all you can do? I.e.; look at the finished result picture.
All this is really meaningless unless a real IP attorney steps in to render a professional opinion anyway.
If you’re going to quote my piece, please at least get the proper punctuation correctly quoted. It’s not a !, it’s a ?. Changing the title to include an exclamation instead of a question really changes it to a factual statement instead of an inquiry, doesn’t it?
I’d also like to point out that I have been a writer/associate/advertisement manager at the Herald for over a year now, and it is not “suspicious” if the Herald covers the same story I just did.
Ari, you’re doing my reputation more of a service here than I could ever do myself. It’s like Rowan Carroll on the Designers in Seclusion chat, whispered in dark hallways and corners…
“What? Don’t you hate Tenshi? Are you afraid of Tenshi?”
The person doesn’t end up building the reputation, it’s the people that talk about them.
“and it is not “suspicious” if the Herald covers the same story I just did.”
Give us a few moments to laugh.
Ok…
You are saying the Herald covered this story? Let’s see here. You posted this on your attack blog, and then, you re-post it in your tabloid blog, citing it “courtesy of schoppingcartdisco”. Courtesy? It’s your article! You covered this, and to get your attack wolves out crying greater foul, you post it again for more visibility. the only courtesy is your twisted mind wanting to smear yet one more person who crosses your path.
Please do us all a favor and grow up.
@ Caliah – I concur. From what I hve been able to discover in the past couple days – all of this is a bunch of hot air instigated by someone who apparently (to me) has a serious axe to grind. I’m not willing to say it’s Tenshi. But whomever it is, they must be seeing bright red whenever the subject on Minnu comes-up. As for how Minnu created her content – I don’t know. As far as I’m concerned, that’s beyond the scope of my personal interest in this. :)
@ Ann – I agree. Besides, it is already law that you must be informed of any and all restrictions on use before you “open the package” as you must be given the right to rebut and EULA and return the ‘package’ for a full refund. You have three business days to cancel any ‘contract.’ Hence, if the EULA is different inside the package than what is shown to the purchaser before purchase, it won’t hold water. It’s why software now comes in a sealed envelope inside the box. Until you tear the seal, you have a legal right to return it for a full refund, no matter what the merchant who sold it to you says. Therefor, the appropriate EULA must be visible before the purchase in the case of such resale models as Renderosity. Once the purchase is made – you can’t ‘return’ it. So all disclosures *must* be made up front. This is where I base my opinion that Minnu is fully legal in regard to EULA and how it applies to Second Life use.
@ Tenshi – with regard to punctuation – I did not transcribe that headline. I copied it (CTRL-C to clipboard) directly from the SL Herald web page and pasted it (CTRL-V from clipboard) into my authoring window. Other than changing the font size and color and weight, there were no other changes. If you would be so kind as to allow me access to the SL Herald edit-change logs regarding that article, I’d be more than happy to change the way it appears here to match the way it currently appears there, provided that log shows no changes since the day and time of my published article.
@ Tenshi – I know how long you have been at the Herald. If you have read my intermediate part of this article (following this one,) you’d already know that. I respect you for that and I like your writing (even if I feel your style is a bit over the top from my perspective). As for the suspicious nature as I describe – every time there is a double-dip I find it suspicious. Not in any other way than for ‘milking’ the popular readership system. But there are no rules against that I am aware of. So by all means, don’t let me stop you.
As for reputation, I concur. I know of you. I don’t know you personally. Sure, I hear what others say and they are on both sides of the fence. But I am one of those type of people who really does choose to reserve my judgments and opinions about other people for myself. I would rather base those ideas about a person on my personal experience with that person, rather than rely on others who always have their own agenda.
So I mean it when I say that I respect you. I really do. I hope you’re not telling me I shouldn’t. ;)
Funny enough, I knew that Tensh would try to pull one of these so I took a screenshot of everything even every comment made on that page by her and Danae.
Tensh you are lower than I thought I can’t believe you went back and changed the title tonight for the entry at SCD and now you come here and accuse this man of lying.
Incredible!
Just in case HTML doesn’t work in comments… here’s the direct link.
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/8130/91418623fi0.jpg
Oh, please, Aradia, really. I’m glad you felt the need to screenshot everything, it just shows how much you’re grasping for anything to control the situation with, doesn’t it?
No it just means you can’t be trusted, that was wrong of you to do. Changing the header of your original post to save your butt from getting into legal trouble is one thing, coming here to accuse someone of wrong doing to make yourself look good is another.
HA! caught in yet another lie, eh Tenshi?
What a shocking surprise. Way to attack Aradia when if the tables were turned, you’d write a HUGE attacking article about how Aradia spins to save face…but you? you just attack her for taking a screenshot.
Add yet one more lie to the facade that Tenshi is. Don’t fess up, and sya “Yeah, i changed the punctuation after Ari pointed it out that I could be sued.
You are laughable.
Personally, I don’t care what happens at Shopping Cart Disco. My concern all deals with what is published at the SL Herald. The headline copied and pasted into my article if from the SL Herald.
The reason this concerns me is that Shopping Cart Disco is not what I would consider a tabloid, as it tends to strictly feature fashion news, reviews and gossip.
The SL Herald on the other hand is a tabloid. They tend to post ‘news-breaker’ and ’show-stopper’ stories that span the spectrum, appearing as (whether they self-proclaim it or not) to be a news-gathering source.
Though I would liken the kind of stories posted there in majority to be of the same ilk as one would find in the Globe, Star or National Enquirer, most of these real life tabloids’ stuff does not hurt someone’s business, though they have been successfully sued over defamation and slander.
As bloggers, it’s easy to just pour your heart out into what you write. But you still should do some fact-checking and be careful what you say, and how you say it. And, if you catch yourself making such a mistake, go back and fix it immediately.
So, for Tenshi going in and changing exclamation points to question marks at SCD is a good thing. However, Tenshi, have you contact the Herald to specifically request that same headline over there be changed?
If not, then why is it taking so long for you to do so?
But I digress.
The damage has already been (verifiably) done.
Oh, please. This post wasn’t about the Herald, it was about the content at SCD and the Herald.
Also, Pixeleen made up the title for the piece at the Herald – all I did was email her the article. If you want to go slap her around, go ahead, but you won’t get very far.
“Slapping Pixeleen around” is not my job, my place or my responsibility. It’s yours.
Either way. It’s all moot because the ’story’ has morphed into something much larger. The subject and scenario has become a cancer and a plague within the Second Life fashion world.
It’s time to start calling a duck a duck.
But your name is on the article, not “ZOMG!! Minnu is a HUGE azz Thief!!” Article By fabulous Kohls Wannabe Tenshi Vielle, title by Pixeleen. Trying to pin this blame on Pixeleen is kinda pathetic. You submit articles without titles? Come on. Your spinning on this is getting amusing.
Tensh, you made your bed. Now it’s time for you to finally lie in it.
Ari can u close down the comments since this is becoming a battle ground for dramas and it is interfering with the whole purpose of the posting ?
Thank you for having a proper outside look over the dramas feeding the SL fashion world.
Ty Kitty for pointing it out.
I have a question Ari.. several actually. If this post is not about whats going on between danae, and minnu, then why nitpick about the heading or wording or punctuation marks on another blog? And why makes statements that it appears danae is making false accusations against minnu, when your very statement to that effect can be seen as the same? And why do you feel the need to question danae, if your only concern is that you feel the other blog was inaccurate? Are you minnu’s legal council? Are you representing her and her wishes legally? Or are you harrassing danae by e-mail, for the sake of posting her response on this blog in the attempt to further try and discredit her?
I do not need to hide my IP, nor post anonymously. But I will tell you, if you post that information here or anywhere else, I will see to it that legal measures are taken. If you wish to speak to me, you have my e-mail.. and the name is Lynn. I make no qualms about it.
This entire affair has turned into nothing more than cloak and dagger…flame wars, where the finer art of dodge and pary are played out. And it’s getting tiresome to say the least. I do not know Tenshi personally and could give a rats.. whatever about her methods of doing things. I for one am glad she posted for danae, and YES danae asked her to post on her behalf. I would have done the same myself.
Let’s not beat around the bush here. Minnu screamed her lungs out Publically, when it was (her?) skins being suspect of being ripped. She and her crew took it public hardcore. Why now is it such a terrible thing for danae to do it, just because minnu is now in the hot seat?
While you may be (trying) to appear to be unbiased with this blog, it is anything but. I will publically state here and now, that while I do not know Tenshi, I am thankful she was willing to publically bring this to light, and I will stand behind my statements that I back danaes decision to take this to the public. You can sure bet I would.. Just at minnu did.
I do not know minnu personally, and have not heard of her until this came to light. I do not have an axe to grind with her, but personally, if i were her, I’d tell you to stay out of this, because honestly? You are not helping anything.. and will only succeed in getting your own self in trouble if you keep up with the accusations. Nuff said.
The answer as to why this original article is simple:
Principle.
Pretty standard user license from Renderosity. The artist usually has a license agreement inside their product as well. Usage Rights
“The files can be used for commercial and/or non-commercial renders.
You can not include them inside another product, free or otherwise and
they are not to be included in any CD collections without permission
from the creator.
You are not allowed to give them away as a gift, unless you purchase
them for someone using the option that the market offers.
These files are not to be given away for free downloading.”
This is from Renderosity’s EULA:
The Artist (Author) retains all copyrights to the enclosed materials. The Buyer is not purchasing the contents, only the right to use the contents. The Buyer may not redistribute this archive file, in whole or in part.
Minnu was redistributing the files in part and/or in whole as part of her skins.
@visualgirl – Wake up. Smell the coffee.
Had you taken the time to read part three, you’ll see where I rip the EULA of Renderosity completely apart.
You are wrong. And like most at Renderosity, you don’t even know your own EULA. Go read part three to this story (link above) and then come back and debunk what I say and what I have found.
Oh, and by the way, it does’t matter if Renderosity finally changed their EULA, because rule changes regarding law and agreements cannot be made retroactive. Only the version in effect at the time of sale is what applies.
I rest my case.